our ultimate fate - that being eternal life, or eternal death.

Don't the afterlife schemas for Christians and Muslims include the possibility of eternal damnation? Eternal death's fine by me, but I don't recall ever hearing a priest or imam say that was an option.

Also, what happens if (when?) we develop technology that effectively stops death through aging and disease? I have a former Christian friend who is very serious about the notion of eternal life in *this* world. (That idea daunts me as much or more as heavens and hells do.)

I have a former Christian friend who is very serious about the notion of eternal life in *this* world.

That would be all fine and good except for one thing...
The transition our 'soul' is supposed to make upon death would in essence never happen so long as we reside in our physical state. From my readings over the years, this enlightenment cannot occur until death severs the physical from the spiritual. I personally believe that our physical senses have overtaken our spiritual being, thus overpowering our spirit's quest to enlightenment. I don't believe that very many of us could ever make this transition as long as our physical sensations overpower our spiritual ones.
Here's one for you G.W.,
I've heard a lot of people say that killing an animal to put it out of it's misery is a 'good' thing. Now maybe it is and maybe it isn't... but doesn't is seem odd that to us as a species our answers always take the 'easy way' out... sure it is easier to destroy something than create it... what do you think about this G.W.?

Laws written by men are not really laws, just words written on paper. We precieve them as laws when backed a monopoly of force/coersion, a.k.a government.

True laws cannot be broken, for instance the law of gravity. We cannot break the law of gravity it always effects us.

Words written on paper are not law, just words that some men have written down to dictate the actions of others.

There is no way to prove or disprove the idea of an after life. To say that the mind and body are not seperate entitys is just as wrong as saying they aren't. It's not scientifically impossible for the mind and the body to be seperate entitys, there is no way to scientifically study the mind, we can study the brain but not the mind. Science really doen't know what the mind is.

Science is actually comming up with theories that actually support the idea of an afterlife, it's called the string theory. It's a complex thoery but some of it points to the idea of other dimensions, some that could be right in front of us but we are unable to sense due to the limitations set on us by our own demension.

Im not a subcriber to any religion or the string thoery for that matter. I just find it interesting, and i usually will stand up for both sides of the argument. I dont know the meaning to life or what happens after death, but no one does and to say you know one way or the other is absurd.

Here's a BBC documentary on the string theory, take a look and see what you think. NOVA also put out a show on the string theory but i cant find it.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4183875433858020781&q=nova+universe+duration%3Along+is%3Afree

i think the number is about 50% of all heart recipents start to exhibit some of the habits of the previos owner

in string thoery they have decided that there are 13 dimenisions the last dimenision ends up being a membrane and the only thing i know of with a membrane is living cells

science has also found that the max life span of humans is 120

they don't know the reason why

i do it is the bible

after the flood god limits mans max life span to 120

was i could get the chapter and everything but i don't have any bibles in my house

the bible says that god has gone through what we are going through so god can not be spirit

You have no emprical evidence to prove the existance of god, the same could be said for the string thoery but the string theory is just theory.

The bible is not proof because the bible was written by man and some other men decided what was to be inculded in the bible and what was to be excluded. Also many of the events in the bible were written years after they allegedly happened by people who were not witness.

The bible is also filled with contridictions. God loves us but if we dont believe in him we burn for eternity? We're supposed to believe in God but the only evidence he gives us for his existance is a book written by man, all men are sinners. We're supposed to stray from evil but yet god created evil? Homosexuality is an abomination but yet has been scientifically to be 98% natural and 2% freewill? Some how the dinosaurs became extinct? We all came from two people so technically we're all imbreeds?

after the flood god limits mans max life span to 120 was i could get the chapter and everything but i don't have any bibles in my house

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

This was just prior to the flood, by the way.



"the bible says that god has gone through what we are going through so god can not be spirit"

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus said that concerning the Father. Jesus is the part of God that has gone through what we go through. The Father is only spirit.


Danielost, there are online Bible's you have access to through the internet.

We're supposed to believe in God but the only evidence he gives us for his existance is a book written by man, all men are sinners.

1john 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1john 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1john 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1john 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Actually, God provides 3 pieces of physical evidence.
The third piece, the one mentioned as the 'witness in earth of blood' in verse 8 and again in verses 10 and 11 as the record God gave of His Son, is the Shroud of Turin.

How is the knowledge of good and evil an emotion?

How indeed! Well i cannot make any promises i am correct, but it seems to me that most of what you find in the bible applies to the emotional, not intelectual. We are made in the image of God - i believe this refers to our emotions, the knowledge of good and evil - i believe these also refer to emotional states.

Also, what happens if (when?) we develop technology that effectively stops death through aging and disease? I have a former Christian friend who is very serious about the notion of eternal life in *this* world. (That idea daunts me as much or more as heavens and hells do.) In the bible God proclaims the earthly consequences of sin... toiling in the fields, pain of childbirth, etc etc. For some people, these effects can be avoided, perhaps also the 120 year barrier can be avoided too? but to become immortal on earth? Perhaps in principle it could be done, but in practice it would not work simply because the majour events to come would get in the way of that (judgement day). quote]The bible is also filled with contridictions.

This is true, and i do not understand why most Christians are affraid to admit this?
Does admitting the bible isn't perfect mean your belief's are false? I say no.

ok it was just prior to the flood

but up until the flood they were living up to 1000 years

if the bible was written only by men and it was written 5000 years ago then how come it agrees with both the big bang and the creation of the solar system as mordern scientists say it was

and i agree that through translation alone much has been lost in the bible

there is evedence of god on the earth besides the bible

evidence 1 is water: water is made up of hydrogen and oxygen. and what do you get when you mix hydrogen and oxygen. you get rocket fuel

evidence 2 is salt: what is salt made from soduim and chloride; soduim burns in water and both are deadly to man except in this form

evidence 3 is ice: ice is the only solid that floats in its own liguid

oops, mixed my text with quote in previous post!

this is john 1 chapter 4


1: Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2: Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4: Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5: They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6: We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7: Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8: He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9: In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10: Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11: Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12: No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13: Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14: And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15: Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17: Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18: There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19: We love him, because he first loved us.
20: If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21: And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

now if god has been like us would he not also have a spirit and a body and in this chapter they are speaking about the spirit of man and the spirit of god

there is evedence of god on the earth besides the bible

If you want evidence of God, forget the chemical analasys and just hold up your own hand in front of your face (provided it isn't prosthetic), there's your evidence!

this is revelations chapter one


1: The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
2: who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
3: Blessed is he who reads aloud the words of the prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written therein; for the time is near.
4: John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne,
5: and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
6: and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7: Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, every one who pierced him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
8: "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
9: I John, your brother, who share with you in Jesus the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
10: I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet
11: saying, "Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Per'gamum and to Thyati'ra and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to La-odice'a."
12: Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands,
13: and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast;
14: his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire,
15: his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters;
16: in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.
17: When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last,
18: and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
19: Now write what you see, what is and what is to take place hereafter.
20: As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.


again the writer is refering to god and christ as two seperate beings

ie god will rule in heaven but christ will rule on earth

If you want evidence of God, forget the chemical analasys and just hold up your own hand in front of your face (provided it isn't prosthetic), there's your evidence!

who do you think gave inspiration for the prosthetic

also in the news lately

evidence of gods work

the two boys that were kidnapped by the one man NC i think

by allowing the last boy to be kidnapped it led to the first boy being found

all of this means i agree with you