Now back to politics and Marxist theory? OK, if you insist
Let's address a series of statements together, shall we?

the proper terminology for the whole 14 hours of work thing is Wage Slavery

To me, health care sucks up way too much of our money, and pays out way too much to doctors, dentists, etc. for their work. They technically produce nothing

the insurance, if you are fortunate enough to have it

the only thing that was actually produced was the prescription medication, and even at that, the dollar amount charged pales in comparison to the actual price to manufacture

wages still suck on an average forty hour work week

not even beginning to touch on college for the kids

instead of using that 'worthless' college degree to make some real money he finds himself stuck in a dead end job because he is unwilling to move to India or China or whatever

Ignoring the obvious rhetorical flourishes employed in some of these statements, (and ignoring momentarily whether we agree/disagree with any of these statements as well) let's address a core (unspoken) assumption behind all of these thoughts: We are somehow "entitled" to a worry-free and happy existence, by the simple act of being born into this world.
This initial assumption must be dealt with before we can even begin to argue about assigning responsibility for providing for this entitlement.

It is a very prolific belief today: that somehow our very existence in this world entitles us to happiness, and that this happiness is the responsibility of "somebody else" to provide for us.

For argument's sake, let's just assume that this is true and we are, indeed, "entitled" to a level of happiness provided by another's labors. Who are these "others"? Are they too entitled to a degree of happiness? We will need to address who is to provide them with their level of happiness, then, correct? Evil S tacitly admits that the concept of "production" exists; and that this production is not enabled by some magical ether, I assume, right? Not to put too fine a point on it, anything "produced" has to come from "somewhere"; it cannot simply grow like topsy from nothingness. Back we come to Raw Materials and Labor. So now we must address human nature and what motivates us to "produce" anything. In a Marxist textbook somewhere people are solely motivated out of their desire to better their neighbor's lot in life, right? In this fantasy world (in fairness, from a Christian perspective, it sounds an awful lot like "Heaven"), we could construct some theoretical system that will provide a minimum collective level of "happiness" for all of the worker bees, right? Each will produce according to their ability and receive according to their needs and everyone will be "happy". We will each have to adjust our own personal convictions concerning "happiness", but this is understandable in the pursuit of Utopia on Earth, right?

Rhetoric aside (and I have been told that I have an understated talent for it -- but let's leave our wives out of this, ok?  ), do any of us truly believe that human nature is formed in this way? What DOES motivate us to produce anything? Charity? Greed? Love? A Mindless Desire to Increase the Hive's Treasury? Do individuals even matter? Is it important for a concept such as "freewill" to exist? If not, our job is made much easier, for then "we" simply designate "some other people" as production "slaves" who will serve us and make us happy.

I will intentionally leave this analysis unfinished to spur the most commentary, hopefully...  

Cheers!

So compared to my mother, the comparable house in the Boston suburbs is closer to ten times my income and my total tax burden is closer to 40% of my income. Believe me, the $8,000 a year my mom earned in 1965 far exceeds the $120,000 per year I earn today. One of the biggest fallacies promulgated by the Republicans is that folks like me are "rich". It couldn't be further from the truth. Anyone in a similar situation to me is deluding themselves if they think they're anything but a peasant. I have far more in common with the minimum wage worker that the truly wealthy. If more people like me realized this truth it would be the immediate end to the Republican party. The problem is that the Republicans treat the people that most folks aspire to be extremely well.

I am in a very similar situation. The 1800 sq ft home one block away just sold for 1.1 million dollars (typical for silicon valley). It's only two blocks from the 101 freeway sound barrier (very busy freeway). Your 20% down payment is a mere 220 thousand dollars...When you look at pricing like this, a six figure salary puts you right back in the wage slave camp. It's true you can take care of all the other worldly needs, but that is some expensive housing.

My only quibble, don't limit the anger over being "rich" to just the Republicans, the Democrats are just as bad. Both like to miss that being rich in a financial sense isn't about how much you are earning today, but how much are you worth today. Just like in GC II, your only value to the government is as a tax base...

During my time ass a pencilpusher,,I quickly realised that most of the people in the top are just as interchangable as the men on the floor

I'm pretty sure there's a typo-pun here that might be the most "valuable" thing in the thread so far. If PB did "time ass" on purpose, well, he/she/it deserves money from Hollywood . Regardless, it's gotta make you thhink...

My only quibble, don't limit the anger over being "rich" to just the Republicans, the Democrats are just as bad.

Politicians are politicians, but I do hold a special distaste for the hypocrisy of the Republicans who on one hand begrudge the measly millions that it takes to help the less fortunate and on the other hand pass out billions to those that need it the least.

I know most Republicans despised Clinton, but all he did was get a hummer in the oval office. Bush outright lied to the American people to get them into a totally unnecessary (and extremely costly) war.

I truly believe that I’m a peasant and that you’re a peasant as well. It tends to put a lot of other things in perspective. It helps you avoid the trap of feeling superior to those less fortunate than yourself.

We are somehow "entitled" to a worry-free and happy existence, by the simple act of being born into this world.

QO your remarks sum it up nicely. Thankfully there are those of us who do beleive you do actually have to WORK for a living to EARN a living.

Peasants of the world unite!

As I tell my wife, one of the hardest lessons of life to learn is that it is not fair. It never will be, and you should never expect it to be fair. Once you've truly absorbed that lesson you are a lot happier and a lot better prepared to deal with the real world. In part, because you become a lot more willing to assume responsibility for making the best out of what you do get in life, and when, on those rare occasions, it is fair, you can treat it like the gift it is.

Which nicely ties together both the wage slave and FC's last post!

I never said that life was fair or that the world owes anyone a living. After all I was brought up Lutheran and one of the prime tenants of the Bible that was drilled into my head was "he that would not work should not eat". I agree with this philosophy wholeheartedly. This is pretty much the same sentiment as FC mentioned. The only thing is I would amend it to be "he that would not work, and is able, should not eat". Again this is pretty much what FC said in he believes in a hand up and not a hand out. I believe in the same thing. Now if someone will simply explain to me how the 80 billion dollar no-bid contract to Halliburton doesn't represent a hand out then perhaps I'll change my opinion.

You have a link or something to what your talking about Mumble? I assume this involves the war?

Mumble, my last comment was meant to be an extension of what you said, not a contradiction. Forums are clumsy tools sometimes.

Edit:

Remembering that this is an open forum, I thought the addendum appropriate. I have seen enough comments by you to know you believe in the value of work and that you get it for lack of a better phase offhand.

This thread has gone around the block a few times and then some. I am really surprised to see it still retains a bit of life. Just when one subject seems to be on the verge of death, a new subject jumps in and steals the heartbeat. I really did not intend to post in this thread again but I find it to alluring.

I see that Quietly Observing is no longer Quietly Observing and is actually Quiet Vocal.

I guess I should step back a little and tell you all, that I am very impressed with the thoughts, opinions, facts, and the words that are used to express them. I can not tell you how many times I have run for the dictionary for a quick review.

@G.W. I have to read most of your posts several times before I actually understand what your actually trying to say. I will be the first to say that there have been a few comments on your part that have left me in the deep, dark tunnel, begging for a light at the other end. That would be because you are far more intelligent than I.

@Mumble & Q.O. It appears to me that you both are very well educated and seem to have an awful lot in common, even though it would not appear so within your posts.

@Evil Eh. For very personal reasons I have to agree fully with your diagnoses of our medical practitioners.

Sometimes I feel very intimidated posting with the likes of all of you. I force myself to do so only because I enjoy the company and the conversation.

In the end, no matter who you are or what you have accomplished... You won't get out alive. That is life.

FC, I spouted the 80 billon figure from memory. A little googling suggests that perhaps this figure is "only" 8 billion. If you want, you can google "no bid halliburton contract" (not exact order) and get over a half million hits. Most are interesting, although admittedly from sites that appear to have a left wing agenda.   

Purge, my work ethic comment was not really directed at you. It was really to indicate that I had more agreement with FC than my other post may have indicated.   

Quixen, no need to feel intimidated, you hold up your end of the conversation quite nicely.

---

I think the reasons I usually stay out of political conversations have been well documented. It's not that I don't care, it's that they can become so inflammatory and in the end change no ones opinion. The only real benefit that can happen is if every once in awhile an opposing opinion makes you take a good look and perhaps make you adjust your own opinion, even if only slightly.

None of these issues are as black and white as each side would like to believe. There are many strong points to be made on either side. At this point I’ve stirred the pot as much as I care to. Perhaps in another 1200 posts or so I’ll feel like contributing to another political debate.

One thing I do really wonder about is whether or not I had been successful in keeping my political opinions from coloring my previous posts. I guess the answer to that question is in how many folks realized that I was a “yellow dog” democrat. I’d at least like to think that I treated differing opinions with respect.   

I am in a very similar situation. The 1800 sq ft home one block away just sold for 1.1 million dollars (typical for silicon valley). It's only two blocks from the 101 freeway sound barrier (very busy freeway). Your 20% down payment is a mere 220 thousand dollars

Sounds like you need to move... you can get a house that size with a full finished basement to boot for less than the down payment here in the midwest. At least we've escaped most of the ridiculous land value inflation seen on either coast in the past few decades. Just find a job that lets you telecommute and you're all set

We are somehow "entitled" to a worry-free and happy existence, by the simple act of being born into this world. QO your remarks sum it up nicely. Thankfully there are those of us who do beleive you do actually have to WORK for a living to EARN a living.

I am not delusional about life not being fair and I know full well that you have to work for a living. But this is only because that is the way our current capitalist system runs, and probably just about every other system as well. Not to invoke laughs but honestly, if you believe in God and Jesus, then yes, we are all here to be happy and enjoy what has been given to us. We are meant to share and love and help one another, thus proving that we are able to move onto the next level in existence, be it Heaven, or something more along the line of being allowed to enter into the universal community versus our Earthly one. But this will probably never happen...

We are meant to share and love and help one another, thus proving that we are able to move onto the next level in existence

Where's the Evil? There is certainly a dichotomy between this statement and your forum persona. Maybe Good Sunshinebringer is really not all that far off.   

Where's the Evil? There is certainly a dichotomy between this statement and your forum persona. Maybe Good Sunshinebringer is really not all that far off.

You liked that one huh? No Mumblefratz, my online persona is probably way off when it comes to my beliefs. I am very religious in the sense that I thoroughly believe in God, and Jesus (and feel they are both different entities)even though I refuse to step foot into a church for religious services. A wedding, a christening, yes... Sunday services, definitely not, no matter what religion. I was raised Catholic and traversed through a handful of religions on the way to 'enlightenment', ahem, and found all of the presentations to be lacking. What drove me away for good was a preacher, Baptist I believe, who one Sunday began by telling everyone in attendance that God wanted us to have a new TV, and a new truck, and a big twelve point rack hanging on the den wall...
I don't walk around preaching, almost always try to do the right thing in line with 'WWJD', and you know what that means, and mind my own. I feel very bad for the people both here, and abroad, who suffer daily and wish there was something I could do of substance that would help, but I can barely help myself. I've volunteered at a few kitchens and even tried to help out at a local animal shelter, which incidentally crushed me having to see those animals put to sleep... but still never felt like I was making a difference. Now I just go through life, sometimes ignorant of what goes on around me, sometimes noticing it all. I figure as long as I love my wife, and she loves me, then that's all that matters. I now wait for what some may call the "end of the world", if it is to happen, and hope that if it does, even if I am one of the sinners, maybe I will see real justice served.